Secretary of State for Scotland (Meeting)
1. Mr Alex Salmond (Banff and Buchan) (SNP): To ask the Scottish Executive when the First Minister last met the Secretary of State for Scotland and what issues were discussed. (S1O-485)
The First Minister (Donald Dewar): I met the Secretary of State for Scotland on 18 October, when, as always, we discussed matters of mutual interest.
Mr Salmond: In view of the quite unjustified criticism that has been heaped upon Sheriff Margaret Gimblett after her decision in Greenock sheriff court last week, does the First Minister agree with the general proposition that the courts of Scotland have a duty to
"follow or at least carefully consider"
international law in determining their own decisions?
The First Minister: I certainly accept that the courts of Scotland have a duty to follow the law; the matter of the interpretation of the law is, of course, sometimes the subject of debate. I do not want to comment on the merits of this particular matter because, as Alex Salmond knows, the whole judgment has now been referred by the law officers to the High Court.
Mr Salmond: It has not been referred as yet—I checked a few minutes ago. I am glad that the First Minister agrees with that proposition, because I was quoting from Ronald King Murray, the last Labour Lord Advocate, who went on to argue, in a paper delivered to the United Nations Association in Oxford last year, that the Trident nuclear system could well be illegal under international law. Does it trouble the First Minister that such an eminent legal authority in Scotland considers that the nuclear system that the First Minister supports could well be illegal?
The First Minister: I have said already that I do not wish to comment on the merits of those arguments, as they are being considered by people of considerably more legal experience than either Alex Salmond or me. I accept that, and I hope that Mr Salmond will as well. We should wait for the review to take place.
I am genuinely astonished to hear that Andrew Hardie—Lord Hardie, our present Lord Advocate—is a non-person. He certainly is a Labour Lord Advocate in my book.
Mr Salmond: Ronald King Murray was the Labour Lord Advocate before Andrew Hardie, and he is an eminent legal authority. I would have thought that the First Minister would acknowledge that. This is, after all, an issue of current controversy. The Scottish National party is against Trident; Labour's official policy in Scotland is against Trident; many Labour MSPs say that they are against Trident; and one of the First Minister's ministers may or may not be against Trident. If it is substantiated that the Trident nuclear system could be illegal under international law, will the First Minister acknowledge that he, and this Parliament, which is responsible for the law of Scotland, will have an obligation to do something about it?
The First Minister: That is a splendid series of hypothetical points. I again advise the gentleman to wait for the judgment. If I allow myself one little indulgence, I will say that the judgment came as a surprise to most people with an interest in the law.
Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con): When the First Minister met his colleague last week, did he find time to talk about the health service in Scotland, and did he perhaps find time to express his pride in the cochlear implant treatment that is offered by Crosshouse Hospital? Does he advocate that that system should remain at Crosshouse, and that John Reid could take the message of Crosshouse's success back to his colleagues at Westminster?
The First Minister: I am always very proud to see the advances in medical practice and treatment in the health service in Scotland. We are fortunate in Scotland to spend 20 to 23 or 24 per cent more per head on the health service than is spent in other parts of the United Kingdom. It is fair to say that we see real results for that spending, in both staffing and technique. We should all be glad that we are in a position to afford that impetus to progress in the health service in our own country.
Dennis Canavan (Falkirk West): In view of the recent historic decision at Greenock sheriff court, will the First Minister ask the Secretary of State for Scotland to try to persuade the rest of the British Cabinet to abide by international law by removing all nuclear weapons from British soil and territorial waters in line with the policy of the Scottish Labour party?
The First Minister: Mr Canavan's theory is touching and he is obviously attached to it. However, I suggest gently that international law is not defined by Greenock sheriff court.
Dennis Canavan: We will see about that. That is prejudging the judgment from on high.